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January 27, 2015 at 18:00 #12202
In reply to: Think I'm convinced after reading this forum
Thanks lndi, spoke with the car insurance dept who referred my query to the underwriters. They are happy to cover both the car and battery so long as I declare the combined value as the market value of the vehicle. They are also happy to cover the cable under the third party liability section.
Thanks again
January 27, 2015 at 17:55 #12201In reply to: Rapid charging rates
A cold battery can’t handle the high charging rates very well. If the conditions are not correct the charger will switch to a lower rate. I have noticed this with a 22kW point as well. On a cold night it would start at 11kW and speed up after about 30 minutes. Presumably the battery “warmed up” a bit? I also noticed one evening when it didn’t do this at all and started at 7kW.
Check the charge history on the ZE services. It should say the charger was a Fast charger. I have had instances where they were listed as Accelerated.
Note that this is in Ireland, not the UK.
January 26, 2015 at 20:23 #12181In reply to: Any potential Zoe buyers waiting for the new engine?
The heater affects range but the heter on the Zoe is quite efficient as it’s a heat pump, essentially it’s the air conditioner used in reverse. You get around 3kW of heating for 1kW of energy input. As I said earlier my car used 1.3kWh of energy heating the car for about 2 hours driving on a day when it was about 4C outside. You can reduce this further by pre-heating the car when you are still plugged into the mains. If I had been driving at 60 the heater would have used around 5% of battery for 1 hours use.
Assuming the car is as efficient when using air con, you probably use a bit less power on an average day. Warming the car from 4C to 21C is 17C difference. Cooling from 30C to 21C is only 9C difference = less energy used.
January 26, 2015 at 16:52 #12175In reply to: Any potential Zoe buyers waiting for the new engine?
One thing that I would say is that your EV driving gets better with a bit of practice. To extend the mileage that the car will do, limit your speed, drive as smoothly as possible and use the heater sparingly. Renault also advise to accelerate gently and decelerate over a longer distance to get the most out of the regenerative braking. I’m not convinced the acceleration limitation makes a huge difference as in acceleration to a set speed you are changing electricity into the same amount of kinetic energy and the rate at which you do so doesn’t make a jot of difference so the losses must be internal resistance in the battery and motor inefficiency at high powers. I try to use the cruise control to keep up a constant speed for more range. I know others find that they get better range by watching the speed constantly and allowing themselves to accelerate when going down hill to use less energy on the next upward hill. You should find 65 miles is well within the range of your car if you don’t go too fast.
On a drive home last Friday I rapid charged at Winchester services on the M3 to 89%, when I set off for home the indicated range was 2 miles longer than the 60 miles to my home. I got home with 22 miles of range left! There were road works on the M3 with a 50mph limit which slowed the traffic down to around 45mph average speed for a few miles, and I got caught in crawling London traffic at the end of the trip. I estimate that if the battery had been fully charged I could have done 88 miles. The heater used 1.3kWh on what was a cold day, probably only about 4 C. The crawling traffic caused the heater to use more range than the gain from going really slowly. On a warm day the range would have been even longer.
January 26, 2015 at 15:00 #12169In reply to: Think I'm convinced after reading this forum
Just found it on my battery hire agreement and mine says: £6160 new and decreasing each year on a pro-rata monthly basis.
January 26, 2015 at 13:04 #12159In reply to: Think I'm convinced after reading this forum
Belle/Claire – here is the bit about insurance in the battery contract:-
10.3 You are legally required to insure the Vehicle and the Battery contained within it. You are responsible for arranging insurance for the Battery from the time of delivery to you. Insurance cover must be effected with a reputable insurer for the Vehicle and Battery under a fully comprehensive policy for all usual risks (including third party liability, fire, theft and accident) and for the full Insured Value of the Battery (as defined in clause 16) without any unusual excess or restriction. You must keep the Battery so insured throughout the duration of this Agreement or otherwise whilst the Battery is in your possession or under your control. This applies whether the Battery is in the United Kingdom or abroad. You will be responsible for any uninsured losses.
I would check with salesman re cost of battery as am pretty sure mine was less around £6.5k from memory.
January 26, 2015 at 13:02 #12158In reply to: Think I'm convinced after reading this forum
Belle/Claire – here’s the bit in the battery contract re insurance –
10.3 You are legally required to insure the Vehicle and the Battery contained within it. You are responsible for arranging insurance for the Battery from the time of delivery to you. Insurance cover must be effected with a reputable insurer for the Vehicle and Battery under a fully comprehensive policy for all usual risks (including third party liability, fire, theft and accident) and for the full Insured Value of the Battery (as defined in clause 16) without any unusual excess or restriction. You must keep the Battery so insured throughout the duration of this Agreement or otherwise whilst the Battery is in your possession or under your control. This applies whether the Battery is in the United Kingdom or abroad. You will be responsible for any uninsured losses.
I would check the battery value with the salesman as I am pretty sure mine was around £6.5k ie. less than samsam quoted.
January 25, 2015 at 14:55 #12119In reply to: Think I'm convinced after reading this forum
and the battery contract deal you have got is great. i didn’t get that deal when I signed up in November although I am speaking to them to see if they can do anything to make it better.
January 25, 2015 at 12:01 #12109In reply to: Any potential Zoe buyers waiting for the new engine?
The test drive yesterday was intended to be a definitive test to prove whether a Zoe is feasible for my needs. It was going to be a categoric ‘yes’ or ‘no’, either it passed or failed depending on whether it could manage my commute on a single charge. Unfortunately, the outcome was marginal, so the answer is ‘maybe’. Let me explain…
The commute I was testing, home->work->home is a 65 mile round trip. I was testing dealer->work->home->dealer. I figure that was a fair test since the dealership is more or less on route (just a slight detour). Also, being a cold winter day (4 deg C) it was a good test of the worst case scenario for performance with a cold battery.
The salesman assured me that it should be able to manage this journey. When I got in at the dealership, the demo Zoe was showing a range of 57 miles on a full charge, so in theory wasn’t going to pass. The salesman assured me that it was because the computer on the demo car is used to doing short test drives, and so would be more likely to give a pessimistic range. Sure enough, the range did waiver about a bit, and once I was going it started to look fine that it was going to pass the test.
Nine miles in, and I parked up at work (got my phone connected, put some music on, started to ‘bond’ with the car). I was also keen to check out a public charging point that was at a restaurant about a mile from my work and on my route back, partly to check that it really exists and is usable, partly to have a go at connecting it up, and also partly because the range was still looking marginal as to whether it would make the journey.
I wasted about a mile trying to find the restaurant, just because the pin on Open Charge Map was in the wrong place, but I eventually found it. It was a Zero Carbon World point, no smart card to scan and the restaurant was closed (nobody about to ask if it’s okay to just use without being a customer) so I just drove up and used it.
If I’m honest, it was all a bit of an ordeal. I got “Ongoing checks” on the dashboard and it clearly wasn’t charging. After ringing the salesman for advice, and some ‘fiddling’ with the cable, it did eventually start to charge. I left it charging for just ten minutes, taking the battery from 72% to 80%. In hindsight, this invalidated my experiment, but I was paranoid that I would end up stranded a few miles from the dealership at the end of the test, and I thought it was useful to have a go at using a public charging point.
It then came to disconnecting the cable. I managed to get the Zoe to release it’s end of the cable fine, but the charging point end just wouldn’t release the cable. Again, I had to ring the salesman for advice, and we tried various combinations of flicking the trip switch on the charging point, putting the Zoe back on charge etc. before finally the charging point spontaneously let go of the cable.
Back on the road and I completed the circuit, with the low battery warning coming on in the last few miles. I arrived back at the dealership with 5 miles of range left. The trip reading showed 67 miles (expected it to be 65), so I must have travelled an extra 2 miles in looking for that charge point and for the slight detour to get to/from the dealership from my commute route.
Hence the test result was a very marginal pass. Yes, I made the full journey, but not enough contingency for my liking, and I had done that small extra recharge too. Really I want to be able to get to work and back from a full charge at home without depending on a top up.
I’m convinced that without that ten minute top up I would have been ringing the dealership to bring out a tow-truck. However, there are a few other factors going through my mind…
– This was more or less a worst case scenario in terms of the temperature of the battery, and I’m led to believe that the range will be significantly better in Spring / Summer / Autumn.
– Whilst I really wanted to prove it can do it all year round, it’s not completely out of the question to have a contingency scenario of a ten minute top up near work at the coldest time of year (and I’m asking my employer if they’ll consider installing a charging point. Unfortunately a granny cable wouldn’t be feasible at my work car park).So, my conclusion is that the Zoe is feasible for me, but only just. I’m in no rush to buy, so my gut instinct is that I would be best to wait for the newer engine to get that extra range that would make it comfortably capable all year round.
I think I would only be tempted to take the plunge now if the dealership were to offer me a deal that was ‘too good to be true’. As it stands, the deal is very competitive, but I’m fairly certain that good PCP deals aren’t going to disappear overnight, especially considering the recent news that the European Central Bank will soon be introducing quantitative easing in the Eurozone for the first time ever. Since Renault are very definitely a Euro company, I can only see PCP deals getting better, not worse.
On the positive side – absolutely loved the car itself. It was a joy to drive at either end of the journey and was brilliant on the dual carriageway – didn’t feel like a “small” car at all. The concept of switching to an EV suits me well. At the moment my old, high emissions, high tax and inefficient ICE is only used on evenings and weekends since I commute by train, so only doing 3000 miles per year. The financial case for a Zoe really stacks up well if I alternate between train and car commuting and increase my mileage to 7500 or 9000 per year. I wouldn’t want to completely give up the train for work since I value being able to read and do things on my commute, but I’d quite happily alternate have a month season ticket followed by a week or two of driving, and then back to the train for another month.
So, my conclusion: I love the Zoe, I’m completely on-board with the environmental side, and it stacks up well for my situation. I’m in no rush to buy, however, and that slightly higher range coming some time this year would make it more than feasible for my commute all year round, I’m thinking it really makes sense for me to sit tight for now. Meanwhile, I’ve not yet properly researched other options for a low-CO2, high MPG ICE, so even though Zoe is top of my list, I need to check out my other options before I’m certain.
January 25, 2015 at 07:34 #12099In reply to: Think I'm convinced after reading this forum
Thanks lndi, I’m going to call the car insurance department on Monday to ask about the battery/cable.
I didn’t get the 17inch wheels in the end. I got a good deal (well I think I did) on an ex-demo. The ex-demos didn’t have the larger wheels and if I wanted them it was to be a factory order and a wait until the end of march so I sacrificed them for a good deal and delivery next week. May look to upgrade them later if that is an option.
I’ll need to have a look for mats. Any recommendations?
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